Posted by Jay Lee on January 10, 1997 at 11:12:53:
In Reply to: Re: Free will and its contradiction in religion. posted by Lynn on January 10, 1997 at 09:55:37:
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: : What I mean by this is that many Christians, or any other religous persons for that matter, say that we have free will in that we chose to belief in their god or not, but when one doesn't chose to belief one is accused of being influenced by some evil enity "away" from their truth. IMO this negates the concept of free will. Can anyone else see this contradiction when they say we have free will and than say the we are being influnced as well?
Yes, I see the contradiction. and I agree with you. I do have free will, and christians or other theist cannot change that by any means.
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: There may indeed be some people who are influenced by demons. I prefer to think that those who commit the most despicable acts of torture and mutilation, especially on children, are acting outside of the boundaries of human will.
: I think I understand your point. Many say how can we have free will if the exercise of such leads to punishment? The criminal uses his free will to commit crimes, but that doesn't mean he won't be jailed if caught, but unlike our criminal justice system, nothing escapes God's justice. If one is able to do good apart from Christ and his conscience is clear, I think he'll fair well. Please allow me to quote Paul to the Romans.
: "When Gentiles who have not the divine Law do instinctively what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, since they do not have the Law.
: They show that the essential requirements of the Law are written in their hearts and are operating there, with which their conscience also bears witness; and their moral decisions will accuse or perhaps excuse and defend and excuse them on that day when, as my Gospel proclaims, God by Jesus Christ will judge men in reguard to the things which they conceal....
: Those who are physically uncircumcised but keep the law will condemn you who, although have the code in writing and have circumcision, break the Law. For he is not a real Jew who is only one outwardly and publicly, nor is circumcision something external and physical. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and true circumcision is of the heart."
: I believe the words Christian and faith could be substituted for Jew and circumcision. So you see, God IS just.
I fail to see any sense in believing any of the things in the above paragraph about 'demons', god, etc.
Do you REALLY think jews want you to substitute your words for theirs.
Free will is free or not free, you cannot have it both ways and engage in any sort of rationalediscussion. This IS
the central issue of this question.